The Big Kvetch: Seattle's deli scene & bagel authenticity
The Big Kvetch: Seattle's deli scene & bagel authenticity
Understanding what an "authentic" bagel is and where to find one.
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Welcome to another edition of the It’s a Shanda mailbag. Here’s the first one in case you missed it. Thanks to everyone who sent in a question or query. I did my best to answer them below and there are more mailbags ahead (so keep your questions coming). The first answer is free to all but the full post is only available to paid subscribers. Enjoy!
You seem fairly committed to the idea that there is an "authentic" bagel, which implies that there is some single bagel standard that bagel makers either do or do not adhere to, that is, a "first bagel," from which all other bagels derive. Can you defend or explain your use of authenticity in this regard? (Now, I'll note that you do explain what you think a good bagel is very well, and I happen to share your definition, but I admit that I chafe at the idea of authenticity here, in the same way I chafe when someone says, "Is it a true, New York bagel?" as if a good bagel couldn't be made anywhere.) - Ted
One of the few things I remember from Philosophy 101 is the notion of the “unmoved mover.” And much in the way that Aristotle argued that "there must be an immortal, unchanging being, ultimately responsible for all wholeness and orderliness in the sensible world,” I believe in the notion of the “first bagel” by which all future bagels must be measured.
In all honestly, I feel like I am constantly grappling with the idea that there is an “authentic” or “correct” bagel that I should be looking for. Everything evolves, right? When it comes to baking, which is a form of artistry, it would be a shame to dissuade artists from building on what came before them and creating their version, and vision, of the bagel.
But like in any art, not everyone is cut out for that. A lot of the time, you end up with some weird flavor concoction or “elevated” version that strips away everything that makes a bagel a bagel, robbing it of its simple, humble perfection.
Something this newsletter journey has taught me is that I am very open to the possibilities when it comes to the modern bagel and where it goes from here. However, I am also very keenly aware that there are some core tenets that I cannot shake when am determining whether or not something is a “good” bagel.
I talked about it a bit in my “What IS a bagel, anyway?” post after visiting Coquette Bake Shop on Bainbridge Island. By no conceivable measure would I say that what they served me that day qualified as a bagel. And yet, I kinda liked it. Meanwhile, while I want to allow room for sourdough bagels and rye bagels, my first thought when eating them is almost always that I wish this “tasted more like a bagel” because I feel removed from the joyful experience I want from it.
Maybe this is all a long-winded way of saying “I want every bagel to feel like the bagel I grew up eating” because isn’t that how it works for most things in life?
New York has Katz’s Deli which gets a lot of attention. Is there an authentic Jewish Deli in the general area of Seattle (preferably, parts north) that slings an awesome or at least good pastrami sandwich and matzoh ball soup? - Brian
I feel like this is one of those “If you have to ask the question, you already know the answer” situations. Especially as Seattle has had its fair share of issues keeping kosher restaurants and delicatessens in business over the years.
As a vegetarian, I am admittedly no help on the pastrami sandwich front (though back in the day I was quite the fan). While I don’t think much of their bagels, I’ve seen enough people rave about Dingfelder’s sandwiches to assess that they’re probably your best bet. They’re enormous and pricy, which should also make you feel like you’re back in NYC.
Zylberschtein’s has a menu full of pastrami, corned beef, and salami sandwiches though I can’t say I’ve heard quite as many people rave about them (but let me know what you think).
As far as matzo ball soup goes, I’ve often lived by the rule that it’s something to be eaten in your family’s kitchen or another Jewish mother’s kitchen and that’s it. You’re telling me I’m gonna find a better matzo ball somewhere else? I don’t believe that.
Once again, when you ask around, Dingfelder’s and Zylberschtein’s appear to be your best bets, but I’m not gonna hold my breath. Roxy’s Diner in Fremont also does matzo ball soup, but a lot of their food can be pretty hit or miss so keep expectations low (I used to get matzo brei there but I think they might have taken it off the menu).
So to answer your initial question about whether or not the region has a Jewish deli that can go toe-to-toe with Katz’s, Gottlieb’s, or Liebman’s, I have yet to find it. But if you do, let me know. I’m dying for a good knish.
Black and whites! Rugelach! Kaiser rolls! - Karen
These aren’t questions, Karen! But I think I see what you’re getting at. And I agree, it’s time to dig a little deeper into Seattle’s Jewish food scene and find the best versions of everything, not just bagels. Expect to see some mid-week posts about these very topics.
In the meantime, I’m curious if anyone else has changed the way they eat a back-and-white cookie from when they were a kid. When I was young, I always powered through the vanilla so that I could get to the chocolate side: The “money” side of the cookie. Now, while I might change flavors between bites, I tend to try to eat the chocolate side first so that I can appreciate the vanilla side last.
I like to think it’s a sign of maturity.
More mailbag answers to come. In the meantime, if you’ve got a question of your own, submit it at seanmatthewkeeley@gmail.com or in the comments below.
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“I want every bagel to feel like the bagel I grew up eating”
I don't have access to it any more, but I'm pretty sure at one point either America's Test Kitchen or Cook's Illustrated did one of their comparison shootouts and their scientific answer to the question "what is the best mayonnaise" was "whatever your mother bought when you were a child".